Warwick Thorton Interview: Get a Story, Bro

8 May 2009

Screenings - External, Reviews

While in Perth for the Talking Pictures preview of Sampson and Delilah, Warwick Thornton spoke to Anomie of FTI about the process of writing, funding and making this landmark Australian feature. He also had some advice for emerging filmmakers.

A: Can you tell us about the journey of getting Sampson and Delilah made?

WT: It takes me a long time to process. If I have an idea, I’ll think about it for two years before I actually write anything. And the reason for this is that I hate writing and I’m mortified at the idea of starting a film and not having an ending. The letting-it-flow kind of writing doesn’t work for me. The beginning, middle and end, all the characters developed: all of that has to happen in my head so that the writing process is just getting it out of my head onto paper. It only takes six or seven days to actually write after that.

A: How was the funding process once you’d written Samson and Delilah?

WT: Incredibly easy. Especially with this film; most of my other films I found the money before I had the producer in place but with this film Kath Shelper [Producer] did it all.

It was one of those situations where the film was written but we weren’t too fussed about making it straight away. I was writing another script and making other films. It wasn’t like I finished writing Sampson and Delilah and then went into some form of development.

We see development as poker. You write scripts but you don’t put them in and try and get funding straight away. That’s because there are a lot of initiatives from everywhere, from ScreenWest or Screen Australia, for example, but it doesn’t mean they’re good initiatives for your film. So for something like Sampson and Delilah, there were a lot of those indie-funding things. We steered very clear of those, just waiting for the right time and place. You see, you’ve got a script and it’s like a trump card. Playing poker, you don’t show all your cards. We think that way. So Sampson and Delilah sat around for at least a year and then suddenly the AFC turned into Screen Australia and they had this shit load of money, and at this time they wanted to fund an indigenous feature before they turned into Screen Australia. And BANG. As soon as we heard that, we put the script in. No one else was ready. They were all caught on the back foot. That’s how it happened. It wasn’t like Sampson and Delilah went into every round of every fund trying to scratch a budget together. That’s how we work. I have a couple of scripts that don’t necessarily need to be funded right now but they’re there, down on paper, and the right fund will come along.

A: Because Sampson and Delilah has a strong vision, are you looking for funding that will allow you to retain that vision?

WT: With Sampson and Delilah you have hardly any dialogue, teenagers in a remote community; a pretty dark film. It’s not a script to take to the FFC because they’re not interested in that kind of story. They’d want to change it: “You can’t make a film where the two lead characters don’t talk.” They think in this kind of way. So we decided early on, no, we don’t want to put the script in to the FFC.

A: You protect the idea.

WT: Absolutely.

A: How was it moving from shorts to making a feature?

WT: We found a way that worked for us for our shorts with small crews. You pay your crews really good money and you earn respect. We found these beautiful people, so we just translated that into a feature film. Rather than spending two days to a week on a shoot, we spend six weeks on the shoot.

The short film Nana was a back story for the Nana of Delilah. I wrote Nana after I’d finished Samson and Delilah and it was just five pages of Delilah growing up with her Nana when she’s five rather than fifteen. Somehow that got funded too so we made that before we made Sampson and Delilah.

Short films are incredibly important if you have something to say but they’re also always a stepping stone. If I wasn’t to make any short films and I tried to make Sampson and Delilah, it would’ve been a really bad film because I wouldn’t have had the experience of learning, of making mistakes, and of doing good things, working out what works and what doesn’t work in the areas of writing, directing, editing. It’s best to make mistakes on short films where the pressure is not as high. It’s a fantastic journey; to do all those short films and hone your skills.

A: So you are using the same crew? You already know how everyone likes to work?

WT: For sure. I believe in that. A lot of first time feature filmmakers who have made shorts and have kept the same DOP and the same editor through the shorts, then suddenly this producer comes along, or suddenly they get this opportunity to make a bigger film, and they piss off all the crew that they originally worked with. They start from scratch and that’s the worst thing you could possibly do. You have these people you have grown with. The cinematographer has become a better cinematographer. The editor has become a better editor. The producer has become a better producer. Suddenly you drop them all for some famous cinematographer and some producer who has made three or four features and it is wrong. It has got a lot to do with funding too because the funding bodies want you to use crew who are more experienced. But the best thing that a funding body can do is keep that team together. They are breaking up a family who have probably done very good things together. There is more at stake but if you believe in the shorts and you believe in the script, then you should believe in the crew – or don’t fund it.

A: You’ve worked on Rachel Perkin’s film as DOP. Is there a community of indigenous filmmakers in Australia supporting each other’s work and careers?

WT: There is and there isn’t. We are so diverse. There are writers and directors and producers who believe in that sort of support: if there’s an up and coming DP, try and get them a job on your film. Then you’ve got other indigenous writers, producers and directors who just don’t give a shit. They’ll just hire the best of the best and it’s survival for them. There are people who want to do it for the cause and then there are people who are trying to work their way to Hollywood.

Those I work with – from make up to costume to focus pulling – are friends, really close friends now. It’s like going on a long weekend with them: having BBQs, making films. It’s a gorgeous way to learn.

A: The POVs in the film, the subjective soundscapes and shots, reminded me as a viewer and as an Australian that everything is subjective and that moments have histories that are unknowable from one point of view.

WT: It was important that the film was about the journey of these kids. It was written so that you never cut away from them and go to some other character somewhere else. Everybody they meet, everything that happens to them, happens to the audience at the same time. We never play with that kind of space. We never cut away to a truck approaching, then back to the kids, so that you know the truck is coming but Sampson and Delilah don’t know the truck is coming. We never muck around like that. You are just going on a walk with these two kids through the community or through Alice Springs and every obstacle, everything that happens to them happens in real time. It hits you just as it hits them. That was really important. It becomes a personal journey rather than a manipulative form of cinema.

The Americans use it a lot: keep the audience two steps in front of the characters so that the audience is comfortable. You’re not asking questions. You know exactly how the film will run. You’re not working. You’re not creating your own perspective. You’re not asking questions about the characters or the film or yourself. You are just numb. The priest in the church: some people say he was bloody useless, some that he was concerned and didn’t know what to do. Fantastic! Completely poles apart concepts of this priest who does nothing but stands there. That’s the way cinema should work. Audiences are not stupid: they can make up their own mind, so let them have a thought.

A: What is next for you?

WT: I have a series for the ABC, a 3 × 1hour documentary series that I’m shooting and directing called Art and Soul which is about contemporary aboriginal art. That will be with Hetti Perkins, Rachel Perkins sister, a curator of the NSW Art Gallery. She’s writing it and I’m directing. That’s going to take about a year and a half. After that I have my wife’s first feature to shoot called Place Between. It’s funded so we’ll make that directly after.

And I’ve just finished a script called Father and the Son; a mega-film! The script is pretty shitty. It’s not finished yet. Got to think for another year or two then do another draft and clean it up. It will be my next feature.

A: It has a beginning, middle and end…?

WT: It’s a fantastic idea. I’m very excited about it. It has all the characters, a beginning, middle and end, a really cool ending, it says a lot about society and it has to be told. It’s just badly written: the dialogue is really clunky; certain characters don’t have any resolution. They pop out from nowhere and then go missing again. I have to interweave those people a lot better. A great idea but just not very well written at the moment. As a writer, you need to finesse, shape, add a bit of salt and pepper; try and create something that flows beautifully and makes sense. Currently, it smells good it just looks like shit.

A: Do you have any advice for emerging filmmakers?

WT: Yes. Would you pay $14 to watch your own movie or story? With a film like Sampson and Delilah I had to ask that of myself. Obviously the answer was yes. I make films that I want to watch. Make films that you actually want to see. Make films for yourself.

Get a story, Bro. That’s really important. And get a fire inside you. You’re giving this to an audience so have you got something to say? Is this film just to prove that you can make films or do you actually have something to say that maybe society can use?

FTI members can purchase tickets to Sampson and Delilah at Luna Cinemas for the discounted price of $9.50 by presenting their membership card.